tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10890387.post5692911369982360804..comments2023-12-25T00:38:19.500-08:00Comments on Finding Wonderland: The WritingYA Weblog (archive): I Don't Do History: The Case For Historical FictionSarah Stevensonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16534942492714970282noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10890387.post-87976923009508667892012-04-06T11:34:39.887-07:002012-04-06T11:34:39.887-07:00@ Alaska: I'm glad you stopped by. I very much...<b>@ Alaska</b>: I'm glad you stopped by. I very much agree - you cannot possibly use fiction alone to teach fact - but you can certainly use it to enhance and to make accessible historical periods, facts, or specific themes. For myself, I know that were I to preface Britain's struggle mid-war with <i>CODE NAME VERITY</i>, my students would be reading more closely for facts and incidents which matched the book - thus reading their history texts and supporting documents more closely, which could only be A Good Thing.<br /><br />One point I can quibble with you on, however; I've lived in the UK now for almost five years. It seems that the U.S. is not the only one poor at geography and map skills; in the modern world, where the go-to is either Google or your iPhone, people don't mentally retain facts; I think there's a generation being trained to do without referencing their brain for anything like phone numbers or email addresses. History by definition must exercise something other than our short-term memory... so, how to engage students with that, when short-term is even slipping past? This is not a "O, woe!" kind of statement, but a pondering, really, and an acknowledgement that lazy teaching really isn't going to work to anyone's advantage in this brave new tech world...tanita✿davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01671822274852087499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10890387.post-10380003896736675032012-04-04T22:04:32.698-07:002012-04-04T22:04:32.698-07:00Oooh, I found this post fascinating because I taug...Oooh, I found this post fascinating because I taught seventh grade ELA and history for a number of years, but got my degree in modern european history (since I couldn't create the major I wanted - which was basically historiography, or how history is written (and what history is), though that is what I wrote my thesis on. ) <br /><br />Here's the reason I am one of those people that says they have issue with "historical fiction" as a genre. I am more than nerd about history, and I care passionately about it, which is why I wanted to teach it. But as a reader (and a teacher), I am immediately dragged out of a story when I come across something grossly inaccurate. It;s like some people get when they read things that don't have proper grammar, or they are sports fans and the book states that Green Bay beat San Francisco in 1998, but the reader knows for a fact they didn't. Why change that fact, when so often it is a throw away? (Don't get me started on Philippa Gregory, or authors calling the San Francisco International Airport "SFI" instead of "SFO" - RESEARCH IS YOUR FRIEND.) It all started with this book titled "Hitler's Niece" - and yes, he had a niece, but there is a record of him seeing her only once or twice during the war, and the novel goes on to state all these things about Hitler as fact - which aren't. So why not create an original character? An SS commandant or something? The movie "The King's Speech" was excellent - but King George didn't give his first speech over the radio at the start of the war. He did it three years before at a large gathering. I understand it makes the story more intense by switching the timing, but now there's loads of people running around thinking that King George got over his speech impediment right at the moment his country needed him the most for his first war time address - and it's not fact. <br /><br />Americans are absolutely lousy at history. We can't find things on maps. And we aren't doing ourselves any favors by not even trying to get things correct sometimes. Or go ahead and take some creative license, but please, at least make an EFFORT to get some factual history in there. <br /><br />I do believe a great story is a great story, so why do you need the trappings of putting in actual people, or fictionalizing real people with real histories? History is so subjective as it is, and it *is* so difficult to get people interested in history, that when you do, why do it wrong? I can't tell you how many people tell me they know things are fact because of movies and books and they are quite simply absolutely wrong. <br /><br />Take CODE NAME VERITY. Ormaie does not exist. The situation, as told, never happened. But the details did. There were people exactly like those characters - but Wein didn't have to use their names to make it "historical". I guess what I mean is, I have no problem when fiction is treated like fiction, but I take issue when fiction is treated as history. <br /><br />(I taught Night by Weisel multiple times, and since I was teaching at an alternate assessment site, my students were not at-grade level reading. We did part of WWII by reading Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes.)<br /><br />I guess that is my point - I believe fiction can complement history, but it shouldn't be used to teach history alone. (One the best books I think out there for teaching about pre-industrial England is Elizabeth Bunce's "A Curse as Dark as Gold." And that's a retelling of a fairy tale, so clearly you can do things from a lot of different angles. You just can't be LAZY about it. You have to care and have a reason for setting it during that time.)<br /><br />I will stop now. ;)alaska.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03945714697876569570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10890387.post-33793235638671581972012-02-09T13:17:01.561-08:002012-02-09T13:17:01.561-08:00Finally catching up on this discussion...I'd n...Finally catching up on this discussion...I'd normally characterize myself as someone who says "meh" when it comes to so-called historical fiction--but then I think about Ann Rinaldi, who wrote some pretty interesting stuff, and Ten Cents a Dance by Christine Fletcher and Al Capone Does My Shirts...and it doesn't have to provoke this yawn reaction, obviously. And I remember a few years back when people were telling me that, with teens, historical fiction was BIG. I think booktalking DOES have a lot to do with it--along with, of course, a great story. As you said, Tanita, a great story stands by itself, regardless of its trappings.Sarah Stevensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16534942492714970282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10890387.post-3210031062219511432012-02-05T11:18:37.058-08:002012-02-05T11:18:37.058-08:00Amen, Tanita! You said it!Amen, Tanita! You said it!Ashley Hope Pérezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15991064798582078393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10890387.post-46436399221890046382012-02-05T09:51:30.770-08:002012-02-05T09:51:30.770-08:00@ Chachic: Oh, interesting! Historical fiction to ...<b>@ Chachic</b>: Oh, interesting! Historical fiction to me is <i>always</i> American history -- and that might explain to me why CODE NAME VERITY to me doesn't seem that way to me at all - it's just deeply exciting, troubling, and dramatic. <br /><br />Hmm!<br /><br />(And now I need to look up Jose Rizal!!)tanita✿davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01671822274852087499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10890387.post-57912704442606624532012-02-05T08:15:54.883-08:002012-02-05T08:15:54.883-08:00Oh we did read fictionalized accounts of Philippin...Oh we did read fictionalized accounts of Philippine history but for some reason, they were not labeled as historical fiction. All schools here are required to teach the novels written by Jose Rizal, our national hero, which are set during the time when the Philippines was still colonized by the Spaniards. I think we mostly think of that as just "required reading" instead of "historical fiction." Maybe that's why when I think of historical fiction, what usually comes to mind are novels set in foreign countries?Chachichttp://chachic.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10890387.post-30632248645314767632012-02-05T07:51:01.932-08:002012-02-05T07:51:01.932-08:00@ Chachic: I agree - it's a lot of the time be...<b>@ Chachic:</b> I agree - it's a lot of the time because I don't want to cry!!<br /><br />So, in school in the Philippines, you weren't assigned to read fictionalized accounts of history because those were considered entertainment, or because Philippine authors did not fictionalize history when you were a kid? <br /><br />Historical fiction as being used for classroom assignments is something that has been very popular and not at all popular - in grad school, we listed the sort of "instructional" fiction that existed and discovered that most of what was assigned to be used in schools *was* so-called "historical fiction" - a lot of teachers didn't see value in just a regular story. <br /><br />I'm always interested in how schools work in other places and cultures.tanita✿davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01671822274852087499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10890387.post-12584171385280784342012-02-05T07:38:53.945-08:002012-02-05T07:38:53.945-08:00I don't usually read war books because I know ...I don't usually read war books because I know they're likely to be emotional reads. I have to steel myself for what might happen and I usually end up sobbing my eyes out (like I did with Code Name Verity). So for me, it's not because war books = historical fiction. I don't have a problem with historical fiction, I've enjoyed reading a number of books under that genre. But I think it's different for me because I'm based in the Philippines - our required reading for school were not labeled as historical fiction.<br /><br />Also, thank you so much for linking to my review! :)Chachichttp://chachic.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10890387.post-68060017077352406312012-02-05T01:54:02.666-08:002012-02-05T01:54:02.666-08:00Kelly, thanks - The Great Gatsby wasn't a good...Kelly, thanks - <i>The Great Gatsby</i> wasn't a good example - and I get a smile out of "retro fiction." It's like Jen's "HisFic for Hipsters" at Reading Rants.tanita✿davishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01671822274852087499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10890387.post-38665721305724159492012-02-04T20:29:26.780-08:002012-02-04T20:29:26.780-08:00Well, I wouldn't call The Great Gatsby histori...Well, I wouldn't call The Great Gatsby historical fiction because it's not. It was modern fiction when it was written --and pretty hip, at that. Fitzgerald didn't set the book in a time other than his very own! <br /><br />That said, if books for young people with a historical setting are getting short shrift because of the term "historical fiction," then maybe some re-branding is in order. Maybe publishers could call it "retro fiction."Kelly Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01752857506190488860noreply@blogger.com